Tl;dr: Google being anticompetitive by hampering third-party cloud sync via permissions (while themselves are not affected).
Thankfully the full feature will still work if you get the app from F-Droid
Hopefully this will motivate more people use F-Droid
I noticed that in their info text shown to their users, they don’t mention F-Droid. I wonder if google doesn’t allow them to mention other stores as part of their “security” policies.
Interesting, Yes I think users should be made aware that if they get the app from F-Droid it will work as intended.
This must be why I never noticed the issue because I have always gotten my apps from fdroid
Upvote the comments in the Google play reviews that mention full features in fdroids version so they climb to the top of most helpful reviews.
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I agree with the sentiment, but wouldn’t necessarily recommend F-Droid, see https://privsec.dev/posts/android/f-droid-security-issues/
The signature and the random updates issues can be solved (partially) by using the izzyondroid repo. A lot of the applications on fdroid are on it. It compiles from sources, doesn’t change signatures, and fetch updates on a daily basis.
It doesn’t solve all the issues, but it can help
Indeed, as mentioned in the article.
“Oh no, an issue that will only affect an extremely narrow spread of people who would already be aware of it, therefore F-Droid bad”
If you’re that concerned about being surveilled, you already have bigger issues.
What? You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. I recommend informing yourself before spewing nonsense.
As the article mentions, this isn’t a security “feature,” it’s anti-competetive. The worst part is that Nextcloud isn’t even really in competition with Google. Setting up a Nextcloud server isn’t hard, but it’s not a trivial task. Sharing it outside your local network also requires a bit of skill, especially if done securely. That is to say, Nextcloud users probably tend to be more tech-savvy.
The people using Nextcloud aren’t going to suddenly decide to switch over to Google Drive. I’ll get it from FDroid before I downgrade to Google Drive. If that wasn’t an option, I’d set up an FTP server or even WebDAV.
The worst part is that Nextcloud isn’t even really in competition with Google. Setting up a Nextcloud server isn’t hard, but it’s not a trivial task. Sharing it outside your local network also requires a bit of skill, especially if done securely. That is to say, Nextcloud users probably tend to be more tech-savvy.
That’s only true for those who self-host this. There are lots of companies offering Nextcloud hosting. That’s probably why Google doesn’t like Nextcloud. I’m not saying Google is right. Actually what Google is doing here is quite pathetic.
Actually what Google is doing here is quite pathetic.
So business as usual then?
There are lots of businesses hosting their own nextcloud as well, this is a serious problem for them.
It seems that Google just gave them back the permission, 2 days after they publicly complained about it and after 6 months of ignoring it. What scumbags.
Great, thanks, otherwise would not have clicked:
Hacker News commenters were really skeptical the new call/feature was insufficient. Anyone know whether these APIs would’ve been OK after all?
Storage Access Framework (SAF) or MediaStore API
So, all the family phones that are using this feature for handset backups. They’re just gonna stop backing up?
Thanks, Google. Thanks for protecting me from free software that scans files on my own phone and transmits it across my own network to my own server. Such a privacy nightmare. /s
Guessing they want you to use Google One, eh.
Unfettered capitalism is just fucking exhausting. What a bunch of assholes. I really need to degoogle my life. Idk how to strip android off my phone and replace it with whatever, but I guess I’m about to find out.
Edit: ty all. I’m gonna check out f droid and go from there!
The problem in this case is the Google Play Store, not Android.
Google is blocking Nextcloud from updating their app on the Play Store unless they remove this vital permission. But nothing is stopping Nextcloud from making their app available on third party app stores with the approriate permissions.
If you download the app from F-Droid instead, it should work correctly.
That is not to say that what Google is doing isn’t monopolistic. I’m just pointing out that you can bypass this restriction by not using their app store.
I hear ya. I’m feeling the need to cut ties with Google all together. They’re not getting any less evil. I’m gonna look into graphene os I think
I’ve been wanting a Linux-based degoogled phone for a while now, and though it sorta exists if you happen to have the right phone model, it definitely isn’t ready for the everyday consumer. But if it’s something you really want to do, there are a few options out there. I’ve done the best I can from not using the google ecosystem at all beyond android, which is my last big hurtle.
I’ve been looking at possible phone options too. There are several degoogled Android options but it’s still Android of course. And switching to a Linux phone seems like it would be really limiting without access to Android/iOS apps. Do Linux phone users just use the browser to replace all those apps? I guess it could work, though it seems less ergonomic.
You could run Waydroid on it, which I think would let you use most of the apps you need, except maybe banking apps and the like.
I would love to make a move, but my reason for not trying out for example postmarketOS yet, is the lack of access to several of the core phone features. From the postmarketOS wiki page, for my phone (Fairphone 4), it lacks access to camera, GPS, NFC (don’t care), audio and battery (not sure what is meant by that), and has partial support for calls (not sure what is meant by partial support).
I just now checked the status for Ubuntu Touch however, and it seems like they have actually gotten these things working. Interesting!
FuriOS is a newcomer and promising. I was very close to getting that but a few issues prevented me. Hopefully my next phone will be full Linux. Really, really want to ditch android. Governments also need to stop catering to the duopoly and make stuff for all platforms (or rather just secure web apps.) And force banks, etc. To do the same.
Oh, first time hearing about them. Interesting. Does not seem flashable on other phones than their own at the moment? In any case, the year of Linux mobile is certainly nigh!
I don’t think we need a Linux-Based Phone, A deGoogled Android fork would do, and it would be a familiar place for most users.
Hopefully a company like Samsung offers deGoogled options in the future.
There are already: GrapheneOS (only for Pixel phones) and /e/os for example.
Samsung aren’t exactly good guys either. At this point I’m not sure there is a company who isn’t out to put profit over everything else.
I know Samsung aren’t good guys, but a big company like them ditching Google will open the floodgates for others to also be able to do it
Samsung? that must be a joke right?
I agree that android itself is not really our “opponent”. It’ll take at least a decade until the community puts together something as remotely capable as android. It would be much easier to take AOSP, or Calyx, and revert google changes that do not tie users into google services, but still were strongarmed in there by google, several things that are limiting user freedom (that is, without accessible options to turn the restrictions off).
Samsung is just an example. I would like any big manufacturer to fork Android and strip Google out of it.
If Samsung does it, it would be great for the deGoogle movement, and would open the floodgates for others.
If Samsung does it, it would be great for the deGoogle movement, and would open the floodgates for others.
I’m not sure about that. samsung is not that respectful of ownership righs, in my eyes at least
I’m not saying they will be the solution, I’m saying they will switch many people away from google. Which is better than what we have now.
well, they have an app store, an account systwm and their own push notification provider, so it could happen
Take a look at GrapheneOS.
I think I’m gonna do just that
Android without Google services is basically taking the capitalism away.
Install LineageOS or GrapheneOS without installing Google Play.
Slap on F-Droid for apps and you have a phone that doesn’t talk to Google at all, and is completely beyond their control.
It’s definitely exhausting.
The silver-lining is that we really don’t have to go along with it. We have the choice to use alternatives, we just choose not to.
Ughghghg. I’m soooo lazy tho!
You can just install it off f-droid instead of the play store.
The thing is that this isn’t even unfettered capitalism.
Unfettered capitalism would be so much worse, which is saying something.
F-droid bitches
I check for all apps on f-droid first, play store second.
does that issue not exist in the f-droid version? if so, i’m glad there’s a workaround when i try graphene😅
The issue does not exist with the version installed from F-Droid. I think the Play Store version is a different build with the feature disabled as a condition of hosting it on the Play Sore.
The Android app itself still works with the permission, and we released new versions on the external F-Droid store. So the limit is a “purely” Google Play Store-related problem.
This is my question. I didn’t read into it much, but isn’t the problem a permissions level thing in android, or is this specific to the play store?
I never use a Play Store version of anything I can find on F-droid or other repos I trust. Then I try it using Aurora Store. Only as a last-resort I try Google. Play Store is only for things I cannot obtian or replace another way.
Learned the hard way that android auto compatibility (on GrapheneOS) works only with the playstore Version of an app because andoid auto checks the install source. Thats the same gatekeeping at play…
Thanks I hate it.
AA is also EXTREMELY vpn-unfriendly. It fails to work period of I’ve got a wireguard VPN without app restrictions, even if there are only a handful of routes using the tunnel. Then, if I restrict the VPN to just certain apps, it’ll still give me the big ol’ middle finger running those apps via AA, which means I can’t stream from my home media host over VPN while using AA because Papa Google apps no.
Really? I’m set up for always on wireguard when not on my home network. And android auto works fine. And yeah, I’m doing full tunnel.
What apps are you using? It refuses to connect to my phone period of on globally, and won’t work with stuff like FinAmp if used app-specific
It seems likely you are using it tethered, vs wireless.
Yeap, same. I have given up on Android Auto because of that. I am not going to let Google hold my phone hostage so they can force me to pay ransom (with my data.)
You can fake the install source
Link to how to?
Obtainium has a toggle to set the install source to Google Play. It uses shizuku
Obtainium has to be the best software never ever
Can’t fake googles key signature
Only map apps, though? I know it Android Auto works fine with sideloaded music player.
Some other sideloaded apps work but everything with a map seems to be blocked. I had EV charging apps not show in Android auto.
The more tech-savvy of you are certainly able to use the alternative app store, such as F-Droid. But for our user base of roughly one million users on the app store, this will hardly be an option.
They have the merit to link to F-droid, but damn they are not selling it well…
I don’t even know if they get any remuneration from Google anyway?
By the way fuck GoogleGoogle works on making Android shit for the past few years. For example idiotic green dot showing me “something is using gps”. Why don’t I have a choice to remove it? Or not allowing apps to get a process list? It will end up dumb as iOS to within couple years.
To be fair, not allowing the user to remove an indicator that something could be tracking them is probably not the worst idea. Otherwise it’d be too easy for someone to install an app like that and hide it.
It’s been in the corner of my amoled screen practically nonstop for 3 years now. I’m really surprised that i don’t have burn-in in that corner.
Hmm, Apple intelligently hides the dots, I’d be annoyed too
I’m assuming that Nextcloud handles all it’s moneymaking outside of the app (indeed it appears to be free if you host the server yourself).
If Google were making 30% on a ton of in-app purchases, they’d let it harvest your fucking organs.
When I switched to iOS, the biggest pain point for me was Apples stranglehold on background processes meant file syncing didn’t work very well. Now it looks like Android has completely killed it?
I don’t have an Android phone currently but I thought I’d check on iOS and, yep, Google Drive has access to all files. Well that’s a bit hypocritical.
I had no idea this was going on. Is it because I’m running Lineage?
Great news. Maybe someone else will think about the rejection of Google.
