I’m talking specifically about obeying the speed limit, doing a full stop at stop signs, etc. After receiving a speeding ticket for doing 53 in a 50, As an experiment I went a full day obeying all traffic laws 100% and it caused so much road rage. For example, there is a 2 lane road near me with a speed limit of 50 (where I got the ticket), traffic usually moves at about 60/65. There was a huge line of cars behind me and nowhere to pull over. As soon as an opening came up on the shoulder I was about to pull over and one of the cars behind me blew past me on the on the right blaring their horn. Then another truck passed me at the next opportunity and brake checked me. Both of these cars proceeded to run a red light about 1/4 mile ahead of me endangering others. By far the worst part of driving on this 2 lane road was the 25 mph work zone which is completely ignored by everyone else. It effectively resulted in me doing 25 mph in a “60” which is very dangerous.
Having needed to spend the entire day pulling over at every opportunity to let people pass I inevitably picked up a drill bit and got a flat tire.
Even matters as simple as stopping completely at a stop sign for 1 second cause immediate anger and dangerous behavior from other drivers.
What on earth are we expected to do? All I want is to avoid speeding tickets and drive safely.
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Write to your local member.
Care less about what others do.
Move to a first world nation or state. (Most of the US isn’t).
Definitely get a dashcam.
Post dashcam footage on YouTube.
Send a bill to the city to the tyre.
Complain about people’s dangerous road behaviour until the behaviour is enforced or speed changed.
You know after thinking about it, its only really been a huge problem on this one road where I live. The speed limit varies between 35,45,50 mph and theres one construction zone that is 25 mph. As a whole traffic goes about 60-70mph throughout. Its a windy valley road that is frequented by bicycles and hikers and people have absolutely been killed there in speed related accidents. I sent a message to the sheriff’s department voicing concerns but I’ve heard complaints from neighbors about it for years and its still a huge problem.
On other roads especially highways its mostly no problem to avoid speeding as long as you stay in the right lane, after all trucks avoid speeding most of the time for efficiency and safety reasons, unless you hit a 50-55mph zone like for construction. Those are nearly always ignored by other drivers. Slowing down to comply with the speed limit is likely to get you rear ended since so many are distracted. If you’re lucky enough not to be rear ended it usually results in getting flipped off, but sometimes road rage incidents can escalate.
Realize that a lot of traffic laws are more or less designed to make everyone a criminal. That leaves it up to the cop to decide who they like to pull over.
Sprinkle in a little racism and bam! This is America.
You’re not supposed to obey traffic laws. They’re designed to fund local governments and give police arbitrary power.
Many laws are. But basic things like speed limit serve a very good purpose: reducing fatalities caused by cars. Speed limits are proven to do this.
Yes but the speed limits posted are outdated, arbitrary, and just too slow
I wholly disagree with this. Cars have gotten faster, more capable, and more reliable over the years but physics and forces involved when you hit something (like a pedestrian) haven’t changed. If anything we should be going slower since cars have gotten heavier.
I was thinking more about freeway speeds.
Not at all. What makes you think they are arbitrary? Have you reviewed the method by which they are usually determined? Speed limits are often times too high, and contribute to a high number of preventable deaths. Speed limits must be lowered, not raised. Preventing deaths is more important than saving 2 minutes on your trip.
Getting a speeding ticket while going 3 miles over the speed limit sucks so I can see why you’re upset.
I’ve never had a problem just going with the flow of traffic. Sometimes almost everyone is going over the speed limit. I go with that. I’ve lived in Minnesota most of my life. I’m more comfortable than most driving in snow and ice. Sometimes in snowy conditions the flow of traffic seems slower than necessary. Yet, again, I just go with the traffic flow and end up driving a bit slower than I would otherwise. If there’s little to no traffic I just go the speed limit. If someone wants in my lane I let them in whenever possible.
Traffic on that road regularly does 60+ unfortunately. There weren’t any other cars around when I got the ticket.
I’d go with the flow even if they are going over. Drivers going at different speeds can lead to dangerous situations so I try to avoid that most of all. If there’s little traffic then I’d go about the speed limit.
That is still illegal and you can be ticketed for it. That is my point. “Its OK to break the law if everyone else was doing it” is not a valid legal defense. The law states in every state I checked that no driver shall exceed the posted speed limit under any circumstances.
You’re right, you could. I never have been ticketed or in an accident. It’d be better if everyone followed the speed limit, but since that doesn’t happen I try to take the safest approach possible given the situation.
So you don’t need to obey the laws because others don’t? You’re being childish, it isn’t that big of a deal.
I will say that ticket you got is bullshit though. That’s just a dick cop.
I don’t think “not wanting to be the target of others’ road rage for actually following traffic laws” is childish, tbh
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Should absolutely dispute that. It will most likely get thrown out.
You just had some bad luck. I have passed dozens of police while going 3-5 MPH over the limit and they never took a second look at me. Same thing riding with others. The main thing in driving is try to be a decent person and try not to stand out. If you encounter an unsafe asshole, stay away from them. If you are in the middle a line of cars going 10MPH over the limit, you are probably fine. If you at the front of a line of cars going 10MPH over the speed limit, you are more likely to get pulled over because you stand out as the first speeder.
The point is even doing 1mph over the speed limit is breaking the law, and there’s no excuse for it. If you were doing 51 in a 50 and all of the other traffic was doing 65 mph it makes absolutely no legal difference and there is no argument to what everyone else was doing, because the fact is that you are actually exceeding the speed limit in that scenario. Your driving is dangerous because you were driving too slow, but your ticket would be because you were driving too fast. Its the whole point of my original post, what are you supposed to do exactly?
There are excuses that are perfectly reasonable to go over by 1 mph. Speedometers are not perfect, and neither are radar detectors. All my cop friends have told me they are trained to give 10% of the speed to normal variation, so at 50mph you would be within the limit to go 55. This has been my personal experience while driving too.
I’m confused why America has such strict rules on it. I’m pretty sure Australia has 5-10% leniency for inaccuracies in measurement.
They do if you’re white. This kind of enforcement usually is reserved for the most heinous of criminals. Those who committed the dangerous crimes of dwb. Driving while black. /S
You generally won’t get a ticket for a few over the speed limit. You can do it hundreds of times without getting a ticket, but an officer can at their discretion pull you over for 1MPH over if they want to. I’ve heard of people successfully arguing in court that infractions like 53 in a 50 are within the margin of error, and others put into question the calibration of the speed detection equipment.
But why would police look at a line of 100 cars going 65MPH and pull you out of the middle for going 51? Unless it’s for impeding traffic, which is a thing.
It’s not technically right, but you go with the flow of traffic and try not to stand out. Everyone technically breaks traffic laws, including the police. Unless you have exceptionally bad luck or you are traveling past the same speed trap or really strict cop, you likely will not receive any more tickets for 3MPH over. Stop signs though, I always come to a 100% complete stop, if the people behind me don’t like it too bad.
More than that, if you’re at the front of the line, that indicates you’re holding up traffic (even if it is “worse speeders” you’re holding up) and creating a dangerous situation.
If you’re speeding and someone is tail gating you, just let them pass.
One time when I lived in Utah, I literally got pulled over for driving the speed limit. Literally. The cop told me that I needed to go with the flow of traffic instead. He didn’t give me a ticket, but it was still an annoying interruption to my day, and I assume it gave him a power boner of some sort.
But another time, living in the same area, I got pulled over by a different cop for going with the flow of traffic, because speeding isn’t justified even when everyone else on the road is.
As another comment said, you’re fucked if you do and fucked if you don’t. Although, I do prefer the alternative of going with the flow of traffic to avoid road rage incidents as you’ve pointed out.
I think I would have demanded a ticket in your case. I would have really liked to see how that played out in court.
You’d probably be more likely to get a ticket for a broken tail light or going 51 in a 50 than any sort of court catharsis
You realize these guys are allowed to kill you at will, right?
That’s when you ask for a name and badge number and report them. They’re not allowed to pull you over for nothing.
But they are allowed to lie to you, and allowed to pull you over for perceived infractions. So, yes they can pull you over for “nothing”.
WTF are you talking about, I e stopped at every stop sign for 30 years. This is all in your head. And complete fiction.
Exactly. Especially this complaint about stop signs. That’s not something that a normal motorist would encounter during a normal day of driving. If you ever happen to encounter a stop sign, as rare as they are, and feel that you then can’t spend a minute to make a proper stop there then the real problem certainly must be in your mind.
Not sure where you live but in America stop signs are everywhere. You can’t go anywhere without hitting multiple.
American residential streets often have stop signs at every intersection
I think it depends largely on where you live. There’s a reason it’s called the “California Stop.” And arpund Boston, the shoulder is a completely additional, auxiliary lane, which so. many. people. use.
There’s a funny video where a group of people got on the Atlanta 285 loop, spread out across all lanes, and did the speed limit for a few miles. They had a camera set up on an overpass to watch the procession come around a curve. They say they did it to show how stupid the speed limit on the loop was, and I’m sure it was infuriating for the miles of cars backed up behind them, but… yeah. It showed few people there obeyed the speed limit. I don’t know if this is the original; I don’t remember it being edited by a spastic gerbil, but that’s what I could find before I lost interest.
Getting a ticket for going 3 over is silly. That part does seem contrived, and if contested OP could easily get that thrown out. I suspect either OP was being a douche in some other way, and the cop put something down to harrass them, or they dropped a “0” in the retelling.
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You do? To be frank, I rarely do unless I’m unfamiliar with the intersection, and neither do 95% of the other people I see on the road. I live in the US.
You should protest the ticket in court. Going along with traffic is a valid defense. Get documentation of the behavior mentioned in your post. Doing what you did is more dangerous than going 3 over. The local bureaucracy has a problem there and you can use this issue to shine light on it.
It’s not a valid defense. I tried using it once and the judge said, if they all drove off a bridge, would you too?
You will have better luck arguing the 3 mph is within the margin of error of the radar gun, that you were on a hill that was slightly accelerating, you slightly sped up to avoid and accident, etc.
Or within the margin of error of your speedometer.
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First speeding ticket in my late teens so live and learn.
Standards of driving sound bad where you are
It is fairly easy to obey the road rules. The problem is that if over time the laws aren’t enforced then it is easy over time for thos laws to erode, and then suddenly it feels weird to obey them.
It’s actually impossible to obey road rules, by design. Any cop will tell you that, if they follow you for long enough, they will have an excuse to pull you over. Being too close to the lane markers. Marginally over the speed limit. Cracked windshield. Something dangling from your rear view mirror. Phone/GPS mount on windshield or dashboard. Following distance. Weaving inside your lane. They can even tailgate you and bust you for speeding if you speed up. I even know someone who got a ticket for not speeding up with a cop car tailgating him - with no lights on - for blocking an emergency vehicle.
You can obviously make it more likely you will get pulled over. Excessive speed, dangerous driving, or being of an ethnic minority all should be avoided. But honestly, the only thing actually protecting you is the herd around you and the cop not wanting to be bothered.
I really disagree that its impossible to obey road rules. Every single thing you listed that you can be ticketed for can easily be considered dangerous and unnecessary for driving…
Yep! I’ve only ever been pulled over two times in my life. Both times were shortly after moving from a different state, both times were some absolutely bogus claim by the cop, both times let me off “with just a warning” against the crime of Driving With Out Of State Tags. It’s absolutely intentional since they expect an out of state person wouldn’t be able to contest it in court. Pigs, all of then
I do it when I have to drive. If people get angry that’s their problem.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6611240-three-felonies-a-day
It’s a feature, not a bug.
Your not expected to obey all laws all the time, its a tool in the toolbox for selective enforcement punishment, taxation.
Ironically, self driving cars will do more to make traffic laws more sensible, since the cars will OBEY every law, no matter how silly… and that will back up traffic until the law is fixed.
I’ve always thought that if you want to fix bad laws, go to the capital city where the law makers are and obey the law very carefully, such that the cost of obedience is paid by the lawmakers.
It’s a game unfortunately.
Sometimes you get nailed for something fucking stupid like 53 in a 50. (Maybe that is worth contesting). Sometimes you deserve it (like me doing 40 in a 25 one time). But there’s no justice. Loads of people get away with breaking loads of laws all the time before they finally get caught.
So it’s a game for us. But actually it’s a money maker for the government doing the enforcing.
One thing works well for me: using Google maps to navigate everywhere I go has the benefit of speed trap notifications.
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All I’m getting from this is that, on the day you obeyed all traffic laws, you were the good driver and the others were bad. Things didn’t run smoothly because the others didn’t obey the traffic laws, not because you obeyed them.
If that many people are ‘breaking the rules’ then maybe we need to look at the rules rather than asking 95% of drivers to change their habits. I know in my state the speed limit is capped at 65MPH on the freeway, but the second you cross the border, the “maximum safe” speed on that same freeway somehow jumps 5-10MPH. How is that possible?
The reality is that it’s a game like the other commentor pointed out. We’re allowed to break the rules and drive 80MPH with the rest of traffic so long as the state can quickly and easily generate additional revenue off of it by catching a few stragglers each day and charging them hundreds of dollars in fines.
The reason that many people can’t stick to traffic rules like speed limits and full stops, as I see it, is more a result of people lacking patience, they are stressed, they are under constant pressure. And they lash out in road rage against others because they are protected by their little metal box and no one can get to them.
Society needs to slow down and individuals need more empathy. If you have kids, make sure to teach them those two things.
